So, which is it? Is the Rapture before, halfway through the Tribulation, or at the end of the Great Tribulation? Before we answer those questions, let’s review some facts.
Yahweh gives and takes at His own pleasure. For us, we are asked to be obedient slaves to Jesus. Satan will stop at nothing to prevent it. Therein lies the spiritual battle, a battle already won for us. Truth is simple really.
I wish I had a bigger vocabulary than just ‘wow’ . I really appreciated this information and the production . As is my style , I will retain more after rereading and studying . Thank you for your efforts !
I am with you, wow! I am always amazed at how God uses this brain of mine to produce impactful productions that touch the masses. However, not all viewers get as excited as you and I. Some of my most hateful comments come from my European viewers. They are duped into adopting this global movement of improving humanity while disregarding the warnings of our precious Lord. Sad.
Hey, Thomas. I am simply saying what Jesus said through John in Revelation 22:18-19. Stating if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Tree of Life. Meaning once in the Tree (saved) can be taken out, minimally, they will be blocked from salvation. Plus, I believe that only those who endure to the end will be saved (Matt. 10:32). Not all self-proclaimed Christians survive this test. Security of salvation is secure unless one violates these immovable passages.
Hi Dr. Phinney. I would respectfully disagree with that assessment. I don't believe that once you're name is written in the Book of Life (at the moment of salvation), it can be removed. Rom 11:29--"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Heb 10:14--"For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." Rom 8:29-30 says we are "....predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son......and those He predestined, He also called, and these whom He called, He also justified, and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Eph 1:13--"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise." I've included these quotes (and there are many more of course) to show that I believe the overarching teaching of scripture is you cannot lose your salvation. I realize this is a controversial subject and many Christians use that revelation verse to prove their point but I also believe it is a core principle or truth of our faith and therefore very important to agree on. I believe we need to use the whole bible when interpreting scripture and not jus one or two verses. I also believe you can "fall away" from the faith without losing your salvation. Obviously you will lose your peace and joy in this world and some rewards in heaven but not your salvation. Saved as thru fire. Humans are fallible but God is not. He cannot lie. Anyway, not trying to chastise but I definitely disagree about this core truth.
Well, Thomas, I can't add or delete from what the Lord said. Since God knows who He predestined to be faithful, He knows those who will not remain faithful until the end. Jesus said, "Those that endure to the end, those shall be saved." I firmly believe in being sealed in/with the Holy Spirit. Although, the question becomes, who will remain faithful to the end who claim they have been sealed & indwelt by Christ? "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' (Matthew 25:12)
As with Hebrew marriages, one year is given to test the engaged bridal members. That one year is the illustration of becoming a Bridal member (saved) while being tested before life parts us. The story of the ten virgins clearly reveals that not all ten go with the Groom when He comes to gather His Bride. Half of them have no oil (Holy Spirit) in their lamps. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:22-23)
Only God, through Christ, knows the authentic!
God is God, and I am not. I won't use "security of salvation" to comfort any soul. Nor do I support insecurity of salvation for those He knows will be faithful in the end. Droves of "Christians" are denouncing Christ every day. Most of them tamper with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (oil). God is the judge, and we must support ALL His scriptures - as in those who will be removed from the Tree of Life.
All the scriptures Paul wrote were to implore and encourage believers to remain faithful in their stated conversions in Christ. His warnings to the Galatian church demonstrate what can happen when "bewitched" by false teachers. Did most of these members lose their salvation in the end? That isn't for me to say. This is the business of God, not mine. The Bottomline, the security of salvation is determined by the predestined plan of the ONE who knows "those who endure to the end, those will be saved." Never concern yourself with chastising me; it is how I grow. Thanks for the challenge.
Hey Dr. Phinney. I agree we cannot add or delete from God's word. I also agree that He knows who will remain faithful and endure to the end and who will not. I know it says in Romans that He Predestined those who love God to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus. Also those whom He Predestined, He also called, (God calls us to Himself), justified us, and glorified our spirit.
I believe in the Exchanged Life theology which I think I heard you mention that you knew Dr. Solomon. If I understand it right, Jesus didn't come to change our life but to exchange it for His. At the time of salvation, we are then indwelt with the Holy Spirit (sealed) of God, freed from the penalty and guilt of our sin, and transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. That is assuming that this exchange took place and we were changed from the inside out.
I too have seen some Christians turn their back on God and fall away. I assume that they never made a commitment to our Lord in the first place and they weren't saved. I agree that only God knows what is in our hearts and who is truly saved. In Matt 24 isn't Jesus talking about those who have been turned over to be persecuted during the tribulation when he says that those who endure to the end will be saved? I always try to use context when interpreting scripture. The context of the chapter, of the book, and of the entire counsel of scripture. Otherwise you end up cherry picking verses that fit your theology or interpretation.
I also know it is not our performance or our works that save us. (the thief on the cross would be a good example). It is grace, thru faith. I don't believe that God has predestined those who will be saved or not because there is no free will then to make the choice. I believe He wants us to come to Him willingly of our own free will. Otherwise what would be the point? Thanks for engaging me and having this debate. I think we have some serious differences in the core foundational beliefs of our theology which is a problem for me. 1 John 5 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." May God bless and keep you!
Well said. I don't think we are that far apart. I believe everything you noted. The real issue comes down to those who think they're saved (Christ Followers) versus those who are (indwelt). If a real conversion and exchange took place, these people would be the ones who endure to the end because Christ will be the enduring ONE in them. So - it comes down to those who count on salvation based on some kind of prayer or mental accent to the doctrines OF Christ versus the Life of Christ, from within, empowering them to live through the testing of their faith. I believe that is His point.
Also well said and to that I say Yes! Amen! Thank you for clarifying this with me. I agree that there are those who try to get a "get out of jail free card" and never really die to the Old Self. Thus they are not indwelt (sealed) with God's Holy Spirit and not saved. They of course will not endure to the end because they do not have the resurrection power in them to do so. I believe we are on the same page and I look forward to further encouragement, inspiration, teaching, and correction.
Yahweh gives and takes at His own pleasure. For us, we are asked to be obedient slaves to Jesus. Satan will stop at nothing to prevent it. Therein lies the spiritual battle, a battle already won for us. Truth is simple really.
Agreed. God is God, and we are not.
I wish I had a bigger vocabulary than just ‘wow’ . I really appreciated this information and the production . As is my style , I will retain more after rereading and studying . Thank you for your efforts !
I am with you, wow! I am always amazed at how God uses this brain of mine to produce impactful productions that touch the masses. However, not all viewers get as excited as you and I. Some of my most hateful comments come from my European viewers. They are duped into adopting this global movement of improving humanity while disregarding the warnings of our precious Lord. Sad.
Dr. Phinney, it sounds like you are saying that you can lose your salvation at the end of this article? Am I miss interpreting what you said?
Hey, Thomas. I am simply saying what Jesus said through John in Revelation 22:18-19. Stating if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Tree of Life. Meaning once in the Tree (saved) can be taken out, minimally, they will be blocked from salvation. Plus, I believe that only those who endure to the end will be saved (Matt. 10:32). Not all self-proclaimed Christians survive this test. Security of salvation is secure unless one violates these immovable passages.
Hi Dr. Phinney. I would respectfully disagree with that assessment. I don't believe that once you're name is written in the Book of Life (at the moment of salvation), it can be removed. Rom 11:29--"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Heb 10:14--"For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." Rom 8:29-30 says we are "....predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son......and those He predestined, He also called, and these whom He called, He also justified, and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Eph 1:13--"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise." I've included these quotes (and there are many more of course) to show that I believe the overarching teaching of scripture is you cannot lose your salvation. I realize this is a controversial subject and many Christians use that revelation verse to prove their point but I also believe it is a core principle or truth of our faith and therefore very important to agree on. I believe we need to use the whole bible when interpreting scripture and not jus one or two verses. I also believe you can "fall away" from the faith without losing your salvation. Obviously you will lose your peace and joy in this world and some rewards in heaven but not your salvation. Saved as thru fire. Humans are fallible but God is not. He cannot lie. Anyway, not trying to chastise but I definitely disagree about this core truth.
Well, Thomas, I can't add or delete from what the Lord said. Since God knows who He predestined to be faithful, He knows those who will not remain faithful until the end. Jesus said, "Those that endure to the end, those shall be saved." I firmly believe in being sealed in/with the Holy Spirit. Although, the question becomes, who will remain faithful to the end who claim they have been sealed & indwelt by Christ? "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' (Matthew 25:12)
As with Hebrew marriages, one year is given to test the engaged bridal members. That one year is the illustration of becoming a Bridal member (saved) while being tested before life parts us. The story of the ten virgins clearly reveals that not all ten go with the Groom when He comes to gather His Bride. Half of them have no oil (Holy Spirit) in their lamps. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:22-23)
Only God, through Christ, knows the authentic!
God is God, and I am not. I won't use "security of salvation" to comfort any soul. Nor do I support insecurity of salvation for those He knows will be faithful in the end. Droves of "Christians" are denouncing Christ every day. Most of them tamper with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (oil). God is the judge, and we must support ALL His scriptures - as in those who will be removed from the Tree of Life.
All the scriptures Paul wrote were to implore and encourage believers to remain faithful in their stated conversions in Christ. His warnings to the Galatian church demonstrate what can happen when "bewitched" by false teachers. Did most of these members lose their salvation in the end? That isn't for me to say. This is the business of God, not mine. The Bottomline, the security of salvation is determined by the predestined plan of the ONE who knows "those who endure to the end, those will be saved." Never concern yourself with chastising me; it is how I grow. Thanks for the challenge.
Hey Dr. Phinney. I agree we cannot add or delete from God's word. I also agree that He knows who will remain faithful and endure to the end and who will not. I know it says in Romans that He Predestined those who love God to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus. Also those whom He Predestined, He also called, (God calls us to Himself), justified us, and glorified our spirit.
I believe in the Exchanged Life theology which I think I heard you mention that you knew Dr. Solomon. If I understand it right, Jesus didn't come to change our life but to exchange it for His. At the time of salvation, we are then indwelt with the Holy Spirit (sealed) of God, freed from the penalty and guilt of our sin, and transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. That is assuming that this exchange took place and we were changed from the inside out.
I too have seen some Christians turn their back on God and fall away. I assume that they never made a commitment to our Lord in the first place and they weren't saved. I agree that only God knows what is in our hearts and who is truly saved. In Matt 24 isn't Jesus talking about those who have been turned over to be persecuted during the tribulation when he says that those who endure to the end will be saved? I always try to use context when interpreting scripture. The context of the chapter, of the book, and of the entire counsel of scripture. Otherwise you end up cherry picking verses that fit your theology or interpretation.
I also know it is not our performance or our works that save us. (the thief on the cross would be a good example). It is grace, thru faith. I don't believe that God has predestined those who will be saved or not because there is no free will then to make the choice. I believe He wants us to come to Him willingly of our own free will. Otherwise what would be the point? Thanks for engaging me and having this debate. I think we have some serious differences in the core foundational beliefs of our theology which is a problem for me. 1 John 5 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." May God bless and keep you!
Well said. I don't think we are that far apart. I believe everything you noted. The real issue comes down to those who think they're saved (Christ Followers) versus those who are (indwelt). If a real conversion and exchange took place, these people would be the ones who endure to the end because Christ will be the enduring ONE in them. So - it comes down to those who count on salvation based on some kind of prayer or mental accent to the doctrines OF Christ versus the Life of Christ, from within, empowering them to live through the testing of their faith. I believe that is His point.
Also well said and to that I say Yes! Amen! Thank you for clarifying this with me. I agree that there are those who try to get a "get out of jail free card" and never really die to the Old Self. Thus they are not indwelt (sealed) with God's Holy Spirit and not saved. They of course will not endure to the end because they do not have the resurrection power in them to do so. I believe we are on the same page and I look forward to further encouragement, inspiration, teaching, and correction.